Members Area
Platforms
Featured Sites |
Profile: pimpske
My Blogs
|
Blog: Religion and the Afterlife
Posted at 09-21-2009 09:33
One of the things i love to do above all is contemplation and understanding. And, during one of my journey's through my thoughts i stumbled across something i found very interesting. However, to fully explain this theory, i'll go through my entire thought process. I encourage anybody to make counter statements and arguments (But only thought driven ones). I am, unofficially a scholar and a ??? so i love to hear the thoughts and opinions of others.
To start, a while back i was talking to a friend, who mentioned somewhere in the conversation that all things happen for a reason. This was in context with the rest of the conversation but i do not remember much else about it. This got me thinking
Most, if not all religions that have a God, believe that all things happen for a reason. That their God has a divine plan that everything fits into, and is a good plan. So, if all things happen for a reason, then ALL things happen for a reason. There is no 50/50 in this case, its an all or nothing deal.
Also - God (I will use this as a general term for all religions with this believe) is a good being, who loves his children entirely. And that God is just, and does not punish anybody wrongly, even if it feels as if one is being punished at the time for seemingly no reason.
So, if we can say that God is just, and that everything that happens in the world is done for a good reason, even if it does not seem so at the time, then Hell cannot exist in the definition that most religions say it does.
For example, If a man kills another man simply because he feels like it, this may look like a random act of violence with no good side to it. But if the father/son/friend ect. of the killed man takes it upon himself to rid the world of all evil then this could be construed as a good thing. Now, 1 death of a good man = 50 deaths of bad men.
However if God loves all his children then this would seem even worse. But, as all things happen for a "Good" reason, then this may cause the entire world to fall into an era of peace because of realization that death is a terrible thing. I know, this is not a great example, but it is, none the less, an example.
So, it would be said that all those evil people would go to hell and burn for all eternity because they were bad people. But, as all things happen for a reason, then they too were bad men for a reason. And if all reasons happen for the grand plan that is ultimately good, then they were bad men for a good reason.
And, as God is just, he would not punish those who did a good thing. It just doesn't make sense.
I have come to the conclusion that Hell may very well be an awful place, but not in the exact same way that religion says.
I am strong in the belief that there is a God, there is a Heaven, and there is a Hell. However, unlike what most religions say, it is not a definite destination. It would make sense, given the description of God, if Hell is a mer pit-stop on the road to eternal life and happiness.
A place to stop to reflect on your life and understand what you did, and learn where your life fits into the grand plan.
I'm sure i did a terrible job in explaining my idea, but when i think, its very erratic, so typing down my thoughts in an orderly fashion can some times be difficult.
Again, i welcome any counter arguments and discussion. Please keep it civil, logical, and friendly. Quoting a single bible or other holy book phrase as a single proof will get no-where and i will delete your comment. However, if you use a phrase and comment on it, explaining your position and why it is relevant, that is fully acceptable. Please keep an open mind about this. Again, anybody posting comments saying they know the answer 100% will be deleted. I've come to realize that nobody, regardless of how much they think they do, knows the answer to the afterlife. It is purely down to belief, and trust.
|
(27) Comments | 643 Views
|
|
 |
doyle138 
Posted on: 09-21-2009 09:52
One thing i wonder is if "war heroes" (people who fight on our side in WWI, II and the current war) are supposed to be so great, and they always say they will go up to heaven
What happened to "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
I mean, im not religious, im athiest, im open minded, but i just cant see any of this really...
But, doesnt all that sorta contradict itself |
|
|
 |
Visigoth
Posted on: 09-21-2009 10:54
I've thought about this as well, and have asked preachers and fellow Christians about it. If God is truly omnipotent, truly all powerful, then why couldn't he just make us perfect? Why can't he just stop everything that is evil in this world, and make it a paradise, just as Eden was?
I guess you could say that because of the stories in Genesis, that living in an imperfect world is punishment for disobeying God and eating that forbidden fruit. But then again, why did God even create the possibility for that situation to arise? It's all very confusing, and I don't think that anyone will ever truly understand it, as in all of these religions that you speak of, God is an all powerful being and God's mind is far beyond the comprehension of humans. Trying to understand the reasoning behind such an entity's motivation is maddening.
When it comes to the "God has a plan" thing, I don't really believe that's accurate. My theory is that God knows every possible outcome, and every possible path, and knows which one you will take, but He does not will this upon you. I think, and this may seem like a poor source, that Futurama got it right:
"If you do too much, people become dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch... If you've done things right, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all."
God gave man free will, so having a plan from creation does not make any sense, as that would neglect the entire premise of free will. It's possible that in the already existing timeline(s) that could possibly come to be, God makes changes here and there that will not impact it directly or drastically, but it's hard to say, especially when you factor in the Rapture.
The hardships that come in life can be seen as a test of character, and as a test of faith even. I know that if I didn't face some of the things that I have, if I didn't deal with the problems that I dealt with, then I would be a horrible person. The things I encountered were painful, infuriating, and spirit-crushing; but by making it through all that, I believe I am a stronger and an overall better person for it.
Killing is wrong according to the Christian and Jewish faiths. The taking of life from another man is one of the greatest sins that can be committed, as life is God's greatest gift; this is why suicide is seen as the ultimate sin. No war is sanctioned by God; however, without the people of the US, Canada, UK, India, etc., insane people like Kim Jong-il and the past Hitler would have massacred and enslaved more people... so it's safe to say that fighting tyrants such as these is good, as it is done in an effort to protect the lives of many others. I don't believe that soldiers join the armies of the aforementioned nations and others because they enjoy killing, I think they do it to protect their country's citizens and the citizens of their allies, essentially justifying their actions. Once again, this is very difficult to answer. |
|
|
|
Visigoth
Posted on: 09-21-2009 10:55
That's what I think anyway. I would have put maybe a little more detail, but I ran out of characters |
|
|
 |
pimpske
Posted on: 09-21-2009 21:34
"When it comes to the "God has a plan" thing, I don't really believe that's accurate. My theory is that God knows every possible outcome, and every possible path, and knows which one you will take, but He does not will this upon you. I think, and this may seem like a poor source, that Futurama got it right:
"If you do too much, people become dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch..."
But, with an all knowing and all powerfull being, it would be very simple to nudge and get massive effects, given God knows all out-comes. And, if God does anything to change the out-come, i think that itself is proof of a plan. Why else would he bother to change anything at all?
And, from what i've understood from most religious sources. The reason God didn't instantly make us perfect, was because he wanted us to have free-will, and not just be slaves. Had he not given us the option to disobey, that would have defeated the purpose of giving us free-will.
I always hear people say "God doesn't exist because if he did he would stop all this evil in the world." Although i've come to realize that it's not God's fault there is evil in the world. Its ours, and the only way to learn from a mistake, is if you fix it yourself. If God swooped down every time we stubbed our toe and magically made it better, then we would go around stubbing our toe again and again forever, expecting him to fix it, nothing would be learned. |
|
|
 |
thestarbird
Posted on: 09-21-2009 23:54
This is a topic I have contemplated a lot. I was raised a Christian and was baptized when I was 13. However, after living my life, seeing the world for what it is, getting married, etc, I have had plenty of time to rethink my teachings.
"All things happen for a reason." This one I am in the middle on. Some could say that the attacks on 9/11/2001 happened so that we could fight a war on terrorism, thus something good happening in the world. However, this is from our perspective. What's not to say that on the other side of the coin, we're the terrorists and we're the evil ones, and that they crashed into us, expecting us to take a higher extreme measure then we actually did, and thus exposing us to the world as evil (theory). On another side for "not all things happen for a reason", what happens when a person who has no family, friends, etc. rams his car into a telephone poll and dies? what was the point in it? nobody is effected, it's just another casualty. I believe that some things happen for a reason, just not all.
The discussion of heaven vs. hell. I've always believed in both places, doing everything I could to stay away from hell. However, after more thought, something donned on me. I took a picture in my head of the entire universe. Now, according to Christian belief, God created the universe and is master of the whole thing. According to the same belief, the ONLY way into heaven is to believe in Jesus and accept him as your savior. This baffles me because I believe that there IS life on other planets in this universe. So, if the ONLY way into heaven is through Jesus, but Jesus ONLY lived on earth, how would the life on other planets get into heaven if they never knew Jesus existed. Take it a step down, Jesus only lived in the middle east, so how would people during the time after his death that lived in Asia or the Western Hemisphere know about him and thus know to accept him as their savior to get into heaven? would everybody else be doomed to an eternity in hell just because they didn't happen to know that Jesus even existed?
man people believe that Hell is actually our life on earth, and that we have to get through our life here in order to be reborn in heaven.
I've also thought about the tree of knowledge and original sin. The bible says that it was Satan who tempted Eve to eat the apple. I believe this, but I may go as far as to say that God did his fair share of temptation as well. I mean, what parent in their right mind gives their children EVERYTHING they could ever want or need and then obviously points to ONE spot and says "Do not eat from THAT tree". Anybody with a child or who has been around children know that by saying something like that to a child makes the child want that even more. It creates a tempting force for the child, and all Satan did was throw some more thoughts into the head of Eve for her to bite the apple. |
|
|
|
thestarbird
Posted on: 09-21-2009 23:58
(continued)...
Eve then goes to tell Adam to do the same, and as any married man knows, if you don't do what the wife tells you do, you indeed do NOT get any "piece" on earth. lol.
I have a lot more theories on these matters, such as "has the final battle between God and Satan already taken place?" and "are there indeed more than one God or demi-gods?" I firmly believe that evil stemmed from the hearts of men, not from God nor Satan. I believe that Satan (or the fallen Angel Lucifer) is not the source of evil, just a mere victim of it, much like we all are today. |
|
|
|
pimpske
Posted on: 09-22-2009 07:16
You have very intriguing theories SB. I too was brought up Christian, was baptized when i was 8. However both my parents are very very very hardcore Christians, unfortunately its to the point where they are closed minded and arrogant. My mother sees things in the news and media and immediately assumes that its an insult to Christianity. My dad generally does the same, both are, however, very narrow minded.
On the subject of aliens. It is a very difficult one to truly decide. There are no obvious signs of intelligent life, even in the least. Now, i have not read the bible so i don't know what it says, nor have i read any of the other holy books. But, from my limited knowledge i would say there probably isn't a great deal of intelligence out there. It may very well be possible that there are plants and beasts, however intelligence seems limited (especially down here) I have millions of theories on life and existence, but i do not share them because they aren't complete thoughts. Like i said earlier my thoughts are very erratic so i don't complete most of them.
Back 10 years ago when i was a small child, i asked my mum if there were Aliens. She said no. I asked if maybe there were just plants and animals. She said no. I asked if maybe there might be other planets other than in our solar system. She said no. She doesn't recall saying this. My parents have a habit of "Forgetting" when they tell me things that are 100% wrong, after saying they were 100% right.
I've often questioned the legitimacy of the bible, considering that its been in the care of man for a thousand years. And, seeing as man is inherently evil, makes sense that those who could read it would often try to change it to fit their ideals. I confronted my parents about this once and they said "But isn't God powerful enough to stop this from happening?" I had no answer at the time, but i realized "Yes, he is. However he's also powerful enough to stop a great deal of things from happening, yet he doesn't." |
|
|
|
thestarbird
Posted on: 09-22-2009 14:28
Well, as far as the subject about life on other planets, in our own solar system I find that we're probably the only ones with the capabilities for life. However, there are too many stars in the entire universe and many other galaxies out there. We cannot see life or perhaps any other planets because our technology is perhaps still too primitive to discover life on other planets. considering the sheer size of the universe, the odds of there being life on other planets are actually larger than we initially believe. Much like the existence of God, we cannot see it nor technically prove it... we just have to believe.
I also have parents who are very narrow minded. They will never change their ideas on many traditional things. Here in Maine, we just won the right to have same-sex marriage, but every church organization in this state fought it and now it's on our november ballot (which I will vote in favor of same-sex marriage due to my own beliefs). My father has some weird hatred for gay people, which has always bugged me. If he's such a follower of the bible, whatever happened to "love thy neighbor as thyself?"
I'm also a believer that God loves all his children, and if all sin is equal in the eyes of the lord, then technically if being gay is a sin, then even gay people should be let into heaven as long as they have accepted Jesus.
It bothers me sometimes how some religious people can be so closed about things. I think if people can be more accepting and open about every day facts of life, then perhaps we can start to experience a bit of peace. Fights over religion, laws, money... it all gets sickening. |
|
|
|
